A good reply, but I see again that you are putting science front and center, while I showed you (and you fortunately did concur) cannot be the case at the overall level.
I have been surprised how few scientists actively peered into the area prior to the materialization process, simply because they are held back by their idea that they must go there through scientific principles and not via the much easier structural route (of very satisfying levels).
An entire material result is of course more than plenty evidence that there is a prior state from which the result arrived. I am glad I don't have to feed all that try to shoot this down.
With having a scientific fact in place of otherwise unknown quality except for the resulting outcomes, we know that the prior state broke in a fundamental manner.
If we use, for instance, the scientific handle of 'closed system' and apply that to the prior state, then we can see that the prior state could have been a closed system (and definitively so from our perspective), and that the current state of the universe is then two closed systems.
With scientists not interested in being structural thinkers but scientists only, we miss out on the better conversation, Rex.
It also helps us see how Space in the prior state did not interfere with that single closed system, but that Space in our current state is found in between both closed systems now as well. While Space did not change one bit, the total number of positions it takes in contains new positions in our material universe. Not Space, but additional positions for Space is the structural focus point. Of course, science cannot show that Space can be different, and that is where structural thinking takes the upper hand in the big-picture discussion.
There is no violation of any physical law when we declare how there are two closed systems today, since collectively they still show a closed reality overall, too. Additionally, we can see that quarks and electrons are the only material outcomes we need to focus on to understand what happened prior when the original closed system broke itself. I won’t provide further thoughts on that — you seem uninterested.
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Nevertheless, to show a scientifically important perspective about the prior state, but using just structural words to make the point, take the analogy of a wind-up toy that when wound up too much will have its mechanism break. What is important about this analogy is that a transformation occurred in spots; we do not have an entire change occurring from an old everything into a new everything. The toy’s materials are all still there. No energy was lost, no energy was produced (unless you want to insert 'potential energy' in the image to start out with, which is possible, but structurally it tells the same structural setup). Yet the prior structure is not the same as the new structure.
In this transformation, we lost the magic trick of the toy, but we did not lose anything else. If we really want, we can still play with the toy, with most of its aspects intact. The magic trick, however, is gone and won't come back.
What the analogy shows us is that we have a prior state of the universe in which there was an additional trick available, and all energy (or, all potential energy) being around already.
The satisfaction is that we can know how matter came to be. The part we need to accept is that we cannot know how energy came to be. Still, it is not uncommon in science to start out with an accepted reality.
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I'm guessing this is my last communication with you, Rex. Thanks again for the good words. Yes, we are both disappointed in the other, but that is because we are standing each in separate positions. I have no problem seeing your positions, honor them even, but you are unable to stand where I am standing because you can only stand in my position when it is accomplished via your position.
One cannot have the bread wrap be made out of bread. One must accept that the bag is paper, plastic or foil. The bag will not be made out of bread as you like it to be.
With that, thank you once more and best wishes for 2023.
