Thank you, Bhup, for yet another good reply.
I don't mind picking one system and then running with it. Not at all.
However, if we want to describe the reality we live in correctly (in as far as we can), then we have to recognize Gödel's work.
No one system exists. Systems exist and in combination they do not form a new and largest system.
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Many people think that zero is singular, but that is not the case.
010 points out how there are at minimum two functions associated with zero.
No surprise of course that one function isn't much of a function at all. The first 0 in '010' can be placed there, but can be left out just as easily. The total will not change. Not much function to this zero, but it is available.
If we take the second 0 out of '010' then we changed the total dramatically.
Zero should therefore not be seen just as the spot that allowed us to place the positive integers there. Zero is a lot more than just that. It allows us to entertain whichever (self-based) system there can be.
Plus... zero takes up space that is not taken in by anything else. Like space in the universe, we have an omnipresence of zero. It is within this omnipresence that we find everything else, with all that everything else always smaller than the omnipresence of zero in the universe.
We did not derive from zero. Zero ended up taking in a central position some 13.8 billion years and never gave up on being the most central aspect in the subsequent reality we live in. Where zero was rather unimportant at first, zero is now the most central aspect to understand. It shows that the original state broke. The pieces cannot be put back together again because the zero position is omnipresent.
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The human brain is organized to always go for unity if that were possible. We benefit from unity beyond our own personalities that can sometimes be selfish.
We speak one language so we can communicate with one another in our communities.
We use one currency so we can trade and express values.
We adhere to one religion so we have all our noses pointed in the same direction.
However, after we established unity, we bumped into many other versions of unity that we do not adhere to.
With currencies, for instance, we see competition (and a subsequent hierarchy). With languages, we see many vying to remain in place and where possible dominate another language. With religion, we hold on tight to our perceptions because divided we fall and other ideas will move in, diminishing our own importance.
Unity is therefore found at a lower level than the big picture level. Unity got established in a spot where zero allowed it to grow strong. We benefit tremendously, so Unity is the first communal thought we will have.
It is even in our genes. Where man-apes have 24 pairs of chromosomes, we have 23 pairs. Our pair #2 turns out to be the combination of pairs #2 and #3 of man-apes. We combined two pairs (and lost our tails).
Inventing non-realities (language, money, religion) turned out to be highly beneficial for us (though not for the rest of the planet). Our brains are fully setup to find Unity, even when that means creating realities that are not real by themselves and need us to become functional.
As long as we are not looking for the big picture, we do not need to understand that each system of organization is ultimately self-based. It is only when we want to understand the big picture (or when the big picture comes back to bite us) that we need to see something from that different perspective. The big picture is not organized around us; we are 'just' part of the big picture.
As long as we do not look in the mirror, we can continue headlong in the same direction of Unitarian thinking forever until we are gone. Yet if we want to grow, we have to recognize our own place in the universe; we have to understand how the universe is organized for real.
Thank you, Bhup. I think we gnawed on this quite well. I really appreciated your replies very much. I believe the only aspect left is the distinction between our minds how the universe is organized.
I cannot accept a structural setup in which an ultimate reunification of all pieces becomes possible once more. The pieces could not have come about had there not been a fundamental zero standing in the center, allowing the prior state to lose its foundation and establishing new foundations, self-based and distinct from one another.
I don't mind if you want to argue the point. I am curious what arguments you provide in support.
